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Tim Kellogg

Performance-Wise, C# Trumps Java

Tim Kellogg
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JohnVerity
JohnVerity
2/22/2013 1:26:47 AM
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Re: Money not politics
I made the mistake of trying to learn C at the exact moment when I was involved in a massive writing project. I guess Dr. Freud would have something to say about that!

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JohnVerity
JohnVerity
2/20/2013 1:27:33 AM
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Re: Money not politics
That C# is so tied to Microsoft may be its Achilles Heel. I can't understand why that company wouldn't open up the language to other platforms, however, just to win more hearts and minds. Especially if the language works as well as so many people believe it does.

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toby
toby
2/19/2013 8:55:36 AM
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Re: Money not politics
Thanks for that link about the port...read it with interest which proves to me I am still a bit of a geek. Impressive work but I was actually more struck by the fact that of a team 15 strong for this project, only one woman was present..in the photo anyway. Maybe I am getting old but I really notice this sort of thing now.

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JohnVerity
JohnVerity
2/18/2013 12:14:33 PM
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Re: Money not politics
Interesting point, @j22. I didn't realize C# is a Windows-only tool. And if so, that means lots of $$ for those wanting to run big clusters, as you point out.

Money talks, nobody walks.

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Tim Kellogg
Tim Kellogg
2/18/2013 12:01:21 PM
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Re: Money not politics
@j22 You're right, running SQL server on Windows is expensive. However, I don't think Windows itself is priced per CPU or usage. Also - I didn't make a big enough point of it but, C# actually runs great on Linux. Mono as a platform has developed quite nicely. While the Mono VM is a little less performant than the Microsoft VM, it's good enought that it shouldn't be disregarded.
For instance, read this Xamarin blog about how they ported Android to C#. http://blog.xamarin.com/android-in-c-sharp/


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j22
j22
2/18/2013 11:37:30 AM
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Money not politics
Wow, I have not heard Java called trendy in a long time. However, the reason Java is used more than C# is very simple. Money...

C# is only fast on windows. Windows requires a license fee per cpu/machine. If you are running a lot of machines like google/yahoo/ebi or any computing centre you don't wish to pay that fee. Might not be much bet when you are talking about real big data i.e. 3000 cpu and plus clusters this really starts to make a difference. As these are the big players who pay for a lot of the development in this space Java is a natural choice for them.

Secondly, java virtual machines are plenty fast all round. Yes we miss value types and I don't see those happening in the next five years. But if we can move off heap for our memory if we need to, avoiding the GC issue you describe. I do think that the Java GC has options available on both the Oracle and IBM jvm's  that have better throughput than the .NET one. Not forgetting ones like Azul which are much better but require Linux kernel patches and support contracts.

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toby
toby
2/18/2013 6:23:12 AM
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Re: Addendum
@John: You are correct, there is now a huge range of tools and frameworks out there for Java and, more importantly, it is pretty much the lingua Franca in development for all new college grads ever since the Msft / Java wars and the trendy factor kicked in.

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JohnVerity
JohnVerity
2/17/2013 3:44:22 PM
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Scala
I'd be curious to know how C# does with the concurrency problem, with handling the inter-communications between the different pieces of an app scattered across multiple processors. This is an area where Java has shown some weaknesses, I gather, which has opened the door to Scala, for instance. 

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JohnVerity
JohnVerity
2/15/2013 7:15:40 PM
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Re: Addendum
Interesting, Tim. I wish I could remember the names, but there are, I believe, some strong competititors to Hadoop afoot, schemes that promise to do similar things but better. Perhaps someone else here recalls some names. Anyway, I have no idea if they are in Java or not. 

Sort of strange that Hadoop would be in Java. I don't think of Google and Yahoo, its creators, being so devoted to that language, but perhaps I am wrong. I would have thought there was more performance to be had from some other languages, but perhaps they were interested in tapping into precisely what you've pointed out, the rich breadth of Java tools that are available. 

 

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Tim Kellogg
Tim Kellogg
2/15/2013 3:57:30 PM
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Addendum
In addition to what I've said already, probably the biggest reason why the big data & high performance folks are flocking to Java is because that's where the big data tools are.

If I'm going to invest my business in big data, I want to go where the tools are. I'll probably want to be doing Hadoop, and since Hadoop requires writing Java classes (traditionally), I'll probably just make my whole app Java. Same with Neo4J - if I want a graph database, Neo4J is a lot easier to use if you're already in Java.

So in a way, the biggest reason why people are using Java is because it's...trendy. Or at least it's easier to get stuff done when you have the best tools available to you. Unfortunately, the core language just isn't enough.

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